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From “The New York Times,” I’m Sabrina Tavernise, and this is “The Daily.”

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A fatal fire in an immigrant detention center in Juárez , Mexico —

— raised troubling questions about the ways immigration is being handled by the United States.

Today, my colleague Simon Romero on how America outsourced its immigration dilemma to Mexico and brought cities like Juárez to a breaking point.

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It’s Friday, April 7.

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So Simon, you’ve been doing a lot of reporting at the US border with Mexico. And I know recently you’ve been focused on this terrible fire that broke out at a detention center just on the Mexican side. What have you found out in the time since it broke out?

So on Monday, March 27, authorities in Ciudad Juárez in northern Mexico went around the city and they began rounding up dozens of migrants after receiving complaints that they had been begging or harassing people on the streets of the city. And they took them to this facility, which really resembles a jail more than a shelter. And it lies just steps away from the border with the United States.

One of the men picked up that day was a Venezuelan and husband of a woman I met in Juárez , Viangly Infante Padrón.

She told me that she had been traveling literally for months with their three young children in a desperate attempt to get to the US border with the hope of applying for asylum. And they had been staying in Juárez since December.

And the day that he was rounded up, she said that he had been out buying medication for their daughter, who has a medical condition that causes her to have seizures. Almost immediately when she heard that he had been detained, she got up with her kids and raced over to the facility with his migration papers. She actually had to wait there with her children for hours, pleading with officials, trying to get him out, trying to get him released.

Around 9:00 PM that evening, she was told that he would be released that night.

But shortly after, her son noticed the smell of something burning.

Then they heard the screams coming from lower down in the facility, and banging on the walls. But she said that migration officials were just sitting there, as if they couldn’t smell or hear anything.

Eventually, she said she sees them start to bring some women out, but all of the men were still inside, including her husband. And that’s when she started to panic.

Officials then told her to get out of the building. Otherwise, she could face some sort of legal consequences. So she went to the outskirts of the facility. She was stranded on the sidewalk outside, witnessing the fire trucks arriving.

And she actually saw bodies being removed from the facility.

God!

Charred remains. She didn’t know if those were the remains of her husband or not, or who they belonged to.

Whoa.

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Until she finally saw him.

And she told me that he managed to survive by going into a bathroom at the facility and covering himself in water in a desperate effort to prevent himself from being burned. But he did emerge with serious smoke inhalation injuries and was immediately hospitalized.

So Simon, that’s just an unbelievably painful account of what happened during the fire. Do we have any more information about how it actually started?

So the first pieces of information that we have came from Mexican government officials. They said that some of the migrants being held in the facility started the blaze by lighting mattresses on fire as a form of protest. Apparently, these migrants who were being held. They were upset, first of all, that they had been detained without having committed any crimes and were protesting the conditions inside. They were contending that they hadn’t been given any water. They were being held behind bars in essentially what they viewed as a jail.

But pretty quickly surveillance video surfaced presenting a darker side to what had happened. There’s video from inside the facility that shows uniformed people saw the smoke filling the cells, and then left without opening the cells or the doors, effectively leaving men trapped inside.

Oh, man.

And now there’s a homicide investigation into the fire, and at least five people have been arrested — three government employees, a security guard for a private contractor, and one of the detainees accused of actually starting the blaze. And really, while this fire is, obviously, tragic, it’s also the latest in a long chain of events and pressure that’s been building in policy change after policy change that has been keeping people amassed in cities like Juárez along the border.

OK. So tell me about that, Simon. Where does that story begin?

Well, there have been decades of failed immigration policies that certainly play a role. But as far as where to start this current chapter of the story, all of that has been exacerbated since the depths of the pandemic. And that’s due to the embrace of an arcane rule known as Title 42 that was used by the Trump administration to quickly expel migrants who were showing up at the border, and even some seeking asylum. This was presumably to prevent them from transmitting COVID due to fears over infections at that point.

When the Biden administration came in, they tried to discard this rule, but they weren’t able to do so. There was a huge legal battle that went all the way up to the Supreme Court, and the rule was kept in place. And so this meant that large numbers of migrants coming from many countries simply could not get into the United States during the pandemic.

But there was one critical exception. And that was for people coming from countries like Venezuela, with which the United States has very bad or very tense diplomatic relations. It meant that US officials simply cannot send those people back to those countries. They cannot deport Venezuelans back to Venezuela.

So then those people were getting into the United States.

Many of them were being able to enter the United States, yes, as part of the process that involves them applying for asylum. And this was adding political pressure at the time. This was ahead of the midterms, we have to remember. And we had a lot of Democratic candidates running in border states, like Arizona, like Texas, who were coming under criticism because of this influx.

So in October, the Biden administration made a change that really just upended everything. They struck a deal with Mexico that, among other things, allowed them to send Venezuelans back to Mexico.

So it effectively closed the exception for Venezuelans.

That’s exactly what they did. And this led to plummeting numbers of arrivals of Venezuelans on the US side. And so this policy really worked so well that the Biden administration then applied it to other countries, such as Cuba, such as Nicaragua, with which the US also has strained diplomatic relations. But while the numbers were plummeting on the US side, Mexico had to continue dealing with this influx.

Why did Mexico agree to it?

Well, we have to remember that Mexico really had already come under immense pressure during the Trump administration to do something, to do anything about the situation along the border. The United States exerts immense influence in Mexico’s economy. It remains Mexico’s largest trading partner.

Also, it’s kind of, in a way, politically expedient for Mexico’s president, because with a deal like this, Mexico’s president can really pursue his domestic policies without much explicit criticism from Washington. That’s a big deal for him. And that’s really, effectively, been the case. The US has largely been hands-off in terms of criticizing him, especially when it comes to weakening election law.

So the deal to close this exception to Title 42 went into effect in October. And from the US perspective, it worked. But the problem didn’t go away. It just shifted to the other side of the border.

And so, effectively, what we’re seeing on the ground is an outsourcing of the immigration dilemma from the United States to Mexico, where migrants are still arriving in huge numbers, where they’re amassing. And you see this especially on the streets of Juárez .

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We’ll be right back.

So Simon, what does this increase in migrants along the border look like in Juárez ? Like, how has this border city been affected?

Well, we really have to remember what Juárez is. It’s a city that really views itself as a place of migration, as a place of refuge, as a place of passage. The original name for the entire area was El Paso del Norte, the Pass of the North, reflecting how people have been transiting through this area for hundreds of years.

What’s different now, though, is that instead of passing through, they’re stuck. They’re staying put for weeks or months at a time.

And why? Why are they stuck?

So there are two big reasons. One is a new app that the US introduced, which these restricted nationalities under Title 42 must now use to secure an appointment where they can request asylum. In the past, you could turn yourself in at the border, ask for asylum, and either be allowed in temporarily or be deported. The app essentially makes that step virtual, and you have to apply for that asylum appointment using the app from Mexico.

Got it. So essentially, the sorting process for who’s likely to get asylum happens in Mexico instead of the US.

That’s right. And this app has just been plagued with issues and different kinds of glitches. And that’s resulted in an even larger logjam of people hanging around on the border.

OK. So what’s the other reason people are hanging around longer?

That has to do with the expectation that Title 42 is going to expire in May. So in anticipation of that, lots of people have gathered in border towns with the idea that in a month or so, it’ll be much easier to cross the border.

OK. So you have all of these new migrants from places like Venezuela and Nicaragua, who would have gotten in before, but who are now being turned away. Then you have this glitchy app, and on top of all of that, there’s this anticipation that soon it will be easier to enter the United States. And all of this together has created this kind of perfect storm for the situation on the Mexican side of the border.

That’s right. And that’s just a huge challenge for Juárez . You know, what you’re seeing now is that many of the people who would have crossed through are actually staying. And immediately after crossing the bridge from downtown El Paso, you see entire families at intersections there. They’re often with infants. They’re often begging for money. You see migrants selling anything they can — from sunglasses to flowers. They’re cleaning the windshields of cars that are stuck in traffic. You’re seeing shelters way beyond their capacity — families sleeping in abandoned construction sites, literally sleeping on the streets.

And the numbers are just growing. They continue to amass in Juárez . And it’s really just increasing pressure on the city in ways that are kind of unprecedented, even for a place that views itself as welcoming, that views itself as a place that’s used to such migration.

And what are people in Juárez saying? How do they see this?

Well, really, as the situation grows more dire and as the pressure increases, you can see that patience is really wearing thin among many people in Juárez , and, of course, amongst the migrants themselves, who have carried out protests about the time that they have to spend waiting on the Mexican side.

At one point in March, migrants tried to rush across one of the bridges connecting El Paso and Juárez . And that just stunned many people. It shut down traffic on that bridge. And people in Juárez , they depend on those bridges to study on the other side, to work on the other side, to see family on the other side. The economy of the city relies on those connections. And that elicited really what was a rare positioning by the city’s mayor. Mayor Cruz Pérez Cuéllar

After that incident on the bridge, he came out and said, we’re running out of patience. The city’s economy cannot and should not be affected by the arrival of these migrants.

He also cited the presence of migrants at intersections and how that’s affecting daily life in the city.

And that’s really quite something. That was a change that’s kind of like really shook people. They’re not used to hearing pronouncements like that from their elected officials, from a city that really views itself as a place of refuge.

So this is the mayor saying out loud that the city’s infrastructure is really being strained here, like that they just simply cannot support the sheer numbers.

That’s right. So you have the mayor saying that. And at the same time, you also have law enforcement taking a tougher approach, becoming more aggressive in their treatment of the migrants, whether they’re rounding up people, placing them in these detention centers. We’ve heard from migrants who have said that they’ve had to pay bribes to either migration officials or local police, even that they’ve had their identification documents burned by some of these officials, which would make eventually getting to the United States or applying for asylum even more difficult for them. And that creates a climate of fear and tension on the streets.

At the same time, you’re hearing these expressions of concern coming from elected officials, you’re also hearing from religious figures, from volunteer organizations, from shelter operators. These organizations have been fierce in their criticism of what the mayor said. They’re saying, that’s not what we’re about. We have to stick to who we are. And they believe that Juárez should remain a welcoming place that treats migrants with dignity.

It’s very complex, of course.

You know, I met one man who was born and raised in Juárez .

His name is Carlos Almendarez. And he makes a living selling used tools in downtown Juárez on the street — anything he can pick up, screwdrivers, hammers, saws. And he himself was a migrant. He had worked in the United States for years in construction and was even deported back to Mexico. And yet he’s concerned.

He sees a lot of these migrants begging at intersections. And he said that that’s a real contrast with his own experience of trying to work hard and make a living.

And he just really questioned whether they have the same gumption that people of his experience have had when they’ve had to really follow their own star across the border in search of work and opportunity.

And is there any truth to what he’s saying here, that these migrants could work, but don’t want to?

Many of them do actually work. I saw migrants selling staples of Venezuelan food, like arepas on the streets — really, anything they could. At the same time, a lot of them can’t work legally in jobs in factories in Juárez that are open to migrants from parts of Mexico. They don’t have the right papers. They don’t have a bank account. They just don’t have the infrastructure that’s really necessary for jobs like that.

But also, the main reason many of them might not seek long-term employment is because their goal is still getting into the United States, not to stay in Juárez . So many of them are just waking up every single day, trying to desperately get their asylum appointment. And that means logging on to this app. Some of them have 1, 2, 3 different cell phones that they’re using. And really, I spoke to dozens and dozens of people when I was in Juárez . None of them got that appointment, except for one person. And that was Viangly, the woman whose husband survived the fire.

Oh, wow.

Yeah. It’s just incredible. And by the way, I mean, both she and her husband work every single day. She works in an ice cream parlor. Her husband sells roses on the street. She managed to get an appointment. That is extremely rare, but it still does offer a semblance of hope to many of the other people who are trying to do the same thing.

So Simon, is there any relief on the horizon? It just feels like something in this situation has to give.

A lot of migrants and advocates thought you might see some relief in May when Title 42 is set to lift. But for many people in the United States who are looking to limit immigration, the system is working. Numbers of arrivals have plummeted. They don’t really have a lot of incentive to change things.

And so people are really waiting to see what’s going to happen. The latest expectation is that the Biden administration is going to revert to another measure for people deemed to have entered the US unlawfully, along with a proposal which would help determine when and how asylum seekers can be expelled. Some people even jokingly refer to this new rule that’s coming as Title 43.

So in other words, it’s going to be more of the same.

That’s what a lot of people are saying along the border.

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Mexico’s economy continues to be extremely interconnected with that of the United States. And the conditions that people are fleeing from in countries other than Mexico continue to be extremely challenging, economically and politically. It’s just unlikely that any of these factors leading to this situation are going to change any time soon. So it’s likely you’re only going to see this pressure continuing to build in border cities like Juárez . And what many people fear is that tragedies like this fire are probably not the last that we’re going to see.

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Simon, thank you.

Thank you, Sabrina.

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We’ll be right back.

Here’s what else you need to know today. On Thursday, the Biden administration waded into the debate over transgender athletes, announcing a proposed rule change that would prohibit schools from categorically banning transgender students from athletic teams that are consistent with their gender identities. But the proposed change to Title IX, the federal civil rights law that prevents discrimination based on sex in education programs, would also offer flexibility to limit the participation of transgender students when including them could undermine, quote, “fairness in competition or potentially lead to injuries.”

And in the wake of a school shooting in Nashville last week, three Democratic lawmakers took to the floor of the Republican-controlled Tennessee House chamber and interrupted debate by leading protesters in a call for stricter gun laws. On Thursday, in a dramatic act of political retribution, the state’s legislature voted to oust two of them. The ousted lawmakers, Justin Jones and Justin Pearson, two of the state’s youngest Black representatives, can run again for their seats, but the ouster temporarily leaves thousands of residents in Memphis and in Nashville without representation in the final weeks of Tennessee’s legislative session.

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Today’s episode was produced by Carlos Prieto, Nina Feldman, Michael Simon Johnson, and Shannon Lin. It was edited by Anita Badejo and Liz O Baylen with help from Paige Cowett, fact-checked by Susan Lee, contains original music by Marion Lozano and Elisheba Ittoop, and was engineered by Chris Wood. Special thanks to Natalie Kitroeff and Miriam Jordan. Our theme music is by Jim Brunberg and Ben Landsverk of Wonderly.

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That’s it for “The Daily.” I’m Sabrina Tavernise. See you on Monday.